Consider the selections we have read from Rumi’s poetry in light of the other, “theoretical” texts we have looked at by Zaehner, De Certeau, and Steal Then, write a 4 to 5 page essay answering the question: To what extent are mystical experiences comparable to experiences of madness, and to what extent are they different? As we
have seen in class, “madness” does not have one meaning, but rather, many meanings depending on the context. So be careful to draw distinctions between how each writer is using the term. Focus on how this word – or other related words for that matter, such as “irrationality” or “insanity” – are used to get at certain aspects of the mystical experience. Your essay should have a coherent thesis that states not just your own opinion, but also how you intend to organize your thoughts.
(1) How does Rumi attempt to distinguish between different types of “ecstasies”? Are all
types of experiences involving a loss of self-control of equal value for the development
of the soul? How does Zaehner try to discriminate between these different ways of losing
self-control.
(2) How is intoxication connected to communication for Rumi? Why, for him, do we
need to let go of the ordinary way we use language to be able to really talk to one another
(consider his story of the drunks and the police)? Is Staal’s idea that mantras, music, and
birdcalls are types of communication the same, or is he talking about another type of
communication?
(3) How is desire connected to a loss of self for Rumi? What, if any, are the limits of this loss of self? Are these the same limits discussed by Zaehner in his comments on manic depression? How does De Certeau’s idea of mystics being selfless in a way that can only exist in fables relate to Rumi’s idea of emptying the self of self?
(4) Why does Rumi believe mystics need to have disguises? How does his idea of the mystic secret relate to DE Certeau’s own idea of how mystics need society in order to be truly incomprehensible? Does De Certeau’s idea of the “abject” have resonances in Rumi?
(5) When Rumi says that a mystic must always guard against ending up as a character in
his own story, what does he mean? Do you see resonances in De Certeau’s idea of
mysticism as a literary reality, not a social one? Is Zaehner saying something similar
when he describes manic depressives as being “afflicted” with the feeling that they are
the authors of their own experiences?
(6) Is Rumi’s idea of intoxication really based on irrationality? What do think of Staal’s idea that emotional experiences can be rational, and what does this say about Rumi’s portrait of the mystic?
MY NOTES
RUMI
Mysticism and madness
(a) lack of verbar and reson ( poetry)
the things that he is describing in words are not there
(b) love
-when you love somebody it does not matter how that person really is.
-When you love somebody there is a difference between emotions and external realities.
-drunks are scare of police because they are drunk, but police are drunk too.
-feelings matter when you are on the inside of it, when you are drunk you are on the inside of your feelings.
-for Rumi the worst thing you could do is step outside of yourself.
– police think they are powerful because they are police. They are not honest , they should become themselves.
– you are more yourself when u are unconscious
-The metaphor of the Reed- it is an instrument, you play it with your breath, it is nothingness.
-Music- it is feeling not sound. There is an interaction between spirit and matter.
-According to Rumi poetry means silence.
-People write poetry to put into words their desires, people want a language to be able to say what they want.
-There is an origin of desire which is Silence.
Michel De Certeau
-The soul is everything you got to transfer to desire.
-energy is what links the soul and the body.
-society is the sum of individuals that make that desire
-the idea that society manufacture the great divorce desire.
-there is a paradox between fear and hope-they have to be experienced at the same time and yet have to be separated.
-the idea that I am god is dangerous
-the mystic fable- stories gives us our identities.
-Mystics are not rational, because they are people with nameless desires.
– nameless is a form of silence.
-mystics are the desire itself this is why they are not rational.
-the moment you name desire, there is no desire, it is not really desire.
-mysticism is not a personal experience, it takes the whole society to make everything work.
– Mystics are literary figures. Mystics have to be unconscious.
-Mystics appear to be alive but they are really not.
-Abject- is an experience that cannot be assimilated to reason
-Cancer is a form of abject-it is something living inside of you that is not suppose to be there.
-abject is connected with desire
-according to him, mystics have no voices themselves, so they need other people.
-Mystics have to deal with a language they did not create
-For Rumi Madness means something completely different than for De Certeau.
First Staal
-Mantra- means repeating something over and over again(ex: OM..OM?)
-Irrationality according to Staal is a Christian idea.
-Adam and Eve wanted to have Gods knowledge.
-Prometheus gave fire to the Greece, he disobeyed God.
-you should stay away from knowledge it will get u further away.
-Religious Pursuit will lead to belief in Irrationality(based on Christianity)
-without irrationality Christianity is impossible.
-Christianity has to be completely true irrational or completely false irrational.
-language is therapy, you feel better by having it in the open.
-Birds singing is a form of communication, the pattern does not mean anything.
-according to Staal Religion is non-propositional, there is no way to prove it.
-according to Staal, think of language as music.
-Illusion-seeing reality from this point of view is different form seeing it form Gods view.
-Snake and Rope- all of our life we walk around thinking we see snakes when they are really not there, they are just harmless ropes.
Zaehner
Mysticism and Madness- dangerous (not happy)
Mental Illness a problem of:
1: Aidous Huxley-gratuitous grace (something free)
-took drugs to have a mystical experience
–hallucinations
2: Rimbaud- “I is another” (can’t recognize themselves, when manic)
“derangement of the senses” -how poetry is defined by
him
3: Al-Qushayri- Sufi(Islam mysticism)
hope/fear
God- compassionate/avenger (punisher who looks down on us)
Compassionate- represents manic depression
hope and fear always relating to the future, hope God will reach down and grab you up, fear that he won’t
hope/fear- expansion/contraction
Keep expanding until you crash, people loose touch of
themselves
Constraint on way you learned before on mystical experiences
4: Jung- psychologist
self is not the same as your ego
a self inside of you in a mystical way
mysticism is connected with morality-egoless
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